It's True, Isn't It: "Acetone is pretty nasty"?

Peter Richards	9:11 AM (36 minutes ago)
to classic-rendez.

Harvey, fwiw, I discovered this in a quick search, among other references to potential neurotoxic affects: "There is some evidence that commonly used ketones (acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl isobutyl ketone) may potentiate the toxicity of n‐hexane and other solvents, a finding that raises doubts about the widely used method of calculating mixed solvent exposures based on the additivity of exposures" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2078137/).
"On the basis of the results, it was proposed that the 6-hr permissible exposure limits for acetone, MEK, and cyclohexanone be reduced to less than 500, 200, and 150 mg/m^3, respectively" (http://pubget.com/paper/9311545/Neurotoxicity_Associated_with_Occupational_Exposure_to_Acetone__Methyl_Ethyl_Ketone__and_Cyclohexanone).
I did this research because my gut feeling was that acetone is not benign (not to say it's necessarily very carcinogenic, nor specifically deadly).
...

John,
I don't follow your logic. This is why: the body's processes produce acetone, I would say, is a more specifically accurate statement than the human body produces acetone. That is to say, the acetone may be a by-product of metabolic processes, for example, it may be synthesized by the body from certain constituent molecules, which the body would be less able, if not unable to evacuate, in the previous state(s). Incidentally, if certain diets were to provide medical benefits while producing acetone in higher quantities (as is, apparently, the case), that may, possibly, happen in spite of, rather than due to, this acetone-producing-phenomena. Therefore, the very point you make may be interpreted to signify its toxicity, just as easily as it might be interpreted to signify it's of a benign-nature (after all, everything that is natural isn't necessarily benign). My first hand experiences do not provide for a controlled experiment (however, iirc: I sensed less noxious affects due to "Vicks," ostensibly containing naturally-derived turpentine [there are many types of turpentine, apparently], and certain "artist quality" solvents, than I did from my female family members' nail-polish-removers); hence, I would not, personally, jump to the conclusion that, in the same environments, acetone is the better choice, or, again, dare imply acetone is completely benign.

I would say: research the substances independently if you want to know more ("pick your poison"), then "follow your nose." Also, considering the chemical composition of your chosen glue(s) might be wise, as they may, later, react with solvents, or aggravate one's system when dust is created from mechanical means of removal. Finally, definitely do take some pains to use a well-ventilated area when dealing with such materials (also, use sparingly).

Peter "I don't need no stinking school" Richards

Chicago, Illinois, United States of America

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:21:18 PM UTC-6, John Taglia wrote:

Don et Alia,

Acetone is NOT extremely carcinogenic. Acetone probably more natural--at least to humans--than pine spirits as the human body produces acetone. 

Acetone is considered safe enough to be used routinely in cosmetics, medical compounds, and even in some food additives.  A commonly seen  around the house item with high amounts of acetone is nail polish remover. 

That said, while acetone is not a deadly toxin, in high concentrations acetone can be irritant. I would not advise drinking it.  But  the capsaicin in chili peppers is also an irritant, and I would not advise drinking a cup of Tabasco Sauce.

Also, acetone is far less than turpentine, which is toxic to the kidneys and nervous system, as well as being an irritant to skin and lungs.  Turpentine can be very dangerous for asthmatics.

Lots of "natural" compunds can be dangerous.  HCN--Prussic acid or hydrogen cyanide--can be easily refined from the pits of many fruits.

Regards,

John "Had To Use Lots of Acetone in Organic Chemistry Lab I and II" Taglia
St. Joseph, Michigan

On Friday, January 4, 2013 8:09:54 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

Acetone is an extremely toxic carcinogen, you should avoid using it as much as possible!

Instead of acetone, use pine spirits (turpentine), which is a more natural product.  I use it as a thinner and cleaner for tubular tire glue.  A number of years ago, a review was written about the "stickiness" of different types of tubular tire glue. It turns out that tubular tire glue affects rolling resistance.  It would be good to google for this review and make up your own mind.  I remember that one of the best glues was Vittoria Mastik one so I bought a tub of this glue as a result of this review.

I still find it difficult to mount tires without getting glue on the sidewalls !!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

On 1/4/13 8:09 PM, Don wrote:

Acetone is an extremely toxic carcinogen, you should avoid using it as much as possible!

Instead of acetone, use pine spirits (turpentine), which is a more natural product.  I use it as a thinner and cleaner for tubular tire glue. 

Harvey:  (1) Acetone is extremely flammable, and a nasty irritant. From reviewing a random 'material safety data sheet,' I don't find indications of carcinogenicity. Of course, my random selection (Millenia Productions, 1996, via Duke Physics web site)  might have been obsolete, but similarly the environmental fact sheet of the NH Department of Environmental Services (2005) reports no evidence of carcinogenicity, at least from inhalation.

Harvey:  (2). My day job is environmental (energy efficiency in buildings, with some background in indoor air quality, too). I'm always concerned when people imply that "more natural" is necessarily better. I'd remind you that asbestos is a "natural" product, mined in very much the same form as used. Of course, don't get me started on the hype on asbestos, at least not in this forum.

A number of years ago, a review was written about the "stickiness" of different types of tubular tire glue. It turns out that tubular tire glue affects rolling resistance.  It would be good to google for this review and make up your own mind.  I remember that one of the best glues was Vittoria Mastik one so I bought a tub of this glue as a result of this review.

Harvey: (3).  I'd love to see the testing on which that conclusion was based. From work that Jim Papadopoulos did a couple of decades ago, and from simple logic, I'd surely expect that tire air pressure and sidewall stiffness would vastly overwhelm any effect of glue differences.  My mental model of glue is that it's simply a coupling agent connecting the solid rim with the solid tire wall.  I haven't been able to think of a mechanism by which it could affect rolling resistance, if properly applied (so the tire isn't sliding around, or seated wrong).

But, I could be wrong, and hope to try some of the Vittoria Mastik you recommend.

regards,

harvey sachs
mcLean va usa